Visit My Sponsors - SharePointAds







Easily Secure SharePoint Documents
Based on Metadata. By Titus Labs.



 Hottest Content

 Latest on Top 100 SharePoint Blogs
 Top SharePoint Storage Resources
 SharePoint Key Capacity Planning Resources
 SharePoint Podcasts, Screencasts, and Videos
 What NOT to store in SharePoint
 Hot Debate: Custom Site Definitions
 Disaster Recovery and Backup/Restore Resources
 Looking for SharePoint Speakers - Joel's Session List
 Free Blog Widget Site Search Components
 RealTime Twitter SharePoint League Stats
SharePoint Joel's SharePoint Land > Posts > 10 Points to the MVP Program
10 Points to the MVP Program

<update 11 May 09>This somehow came across all wrong and personal.  It wasn't intended to.  In tweets and blog comments everyone was wondering what was wrong with the MVP program.  I've been a fan for a long time, but have seen another side to some of the downsides.  As a result I felt prompted to provide some feedback on gaps in the MVP program.  It was these tweets that ultimately led to this post which was NOT an attack and was NOT a post in frustration of me not getting something.  Let's take this down a notch and see if we can discuss this without personal attacks.

@joeloleson What up bro with the Knights thing? Competition to MSFT MVP program now you're no longer a softie?

@joeloleson I'm not sure I see the value in creating another splinter in a public program like the MVPs. You filling a gap you think exists?

@joeloleson I'm not saying the MVP program is not without flaws but is it good practice to startup another group to supplement a broken cog?

It's unfortunate that the social community goals of a group that would cross cut those in Microsoft, those with awards past and current, and goals of vendor neutral, all got caught up in this MVP discussion.

This issues list, was more based on conversations, and experiences of people and not to be seen as a list of these are the explicit problems with the program or it's awardees.

As a result of the animosity and division that I saw occuring, I put a stop to any further development on the Knights program.  This animosity itself created a couple of groups... The SCUM SharePoint Community Union Members and the Why can't we all just get along twibe. 

(Also note the word Luther removed from title)

</update>

This is going to feel a bit like Martin Luther posting his 95 points about the Catholic Church, but I feel like I'm in a unique position to provide some constructive criticism about the MVP program, which by the way I have adored for years, and will continue to adore.  I may or may not be an MVP, it's an award and I recognize that.  My best friends in the whole world are MVPs and the MVP Leads around the world.  I personally have nothing against any of them.  I'll continue to love the MVPs and praise the success of the SharePoint MVP program, but at the same time I do have a unique position to criticize the program in a constructive way at risk of being shunned myself, blacklisted (what a horrible word).  I hope none of the MVPs take this the wrong way (I know some will based on the crazy comments on my previous post) and understand this was essentially being asked for at the building of this community program.

Last night I posted a blog about a community program poised to provide recognition and promote chivalry to bring together the top community leaders among SharePoint in a structured way that is easily understood and achievable.  This program is the SharePoint Knights.  A few MVPs saw this as a threat to the MVP program and wondered why if there were problems they shouldn't just be fixed.  In this tough economic climate for Microsoft, the MVP budget has taken a hit while SharePoint and the MOST PASSIONATE community in the software world has been growing exponentially.

The organization of the Knights is primarily is being driven based on unrecognized community leadership that need to have a way to stand apart and be better connected with and at events.  This isn't a personal vendetta or have anything to do with me while I do hope to take advantage of this community while I do have some personal experiences that come out in the list, and many are my observations.

Here's 10 points where the MVP program could improve, and essentially are areas that the Knights will focus on avoiding in its establishment.

1. The magic around becoming an MVP is too good ol' boy - Since MVPs are responsible for recognizing and nominating, recognizing, and seeking out people for the Award.  Many many, excellent and awesome people in the community go unrecognized for years if not forever.  Often they have more experience, more skills, and have worked harder than their counterparts and contribute to the community even more.  They can't nominate themselves, that would heresy.  The program needs to be more clear. 

2. If you want to be one careful how you ask or you will NOT be one - I know a blogger who had a strong desire to be an MVP and they posted on their blog of their intension.  By the comments you'd think this person who never knew the MVP code had violated some sacred policy.  Many evil comments on the blog suggested this person would be shunned by the MVPs. 

3. If you loose your MVP it's like you are shunned - You've been voted off the island.  Take the walk of shame.  The MVPs have become a religious order, definitely not the original intentions of the MVP program.  It really has taken the exclusivity and many when they are not renewed feel like they were kicked out of the club.  It's actually very sad.  Leads dry up, friends don't talk.  Very sad situation. 

4. MVP social exclusivity - With the exclusivity of MVPs you'd be surprised how many exclusive events there are for MVPs, which often looses it's original intent of community.  When you're alone do community things, but when you socialize don't exclude.  It's great to get all the MVPs in an area together, but sadly people are left out because they are X-MVPs or is it they aren't cool enough.  I know many social gatherings I felt like I was an exception and I appreciate that, but exclusivity has often gotten out of hand over the top.  (This doesn't apply to all people.)

5. Politics are often personal - Hey it's an award and you weren't chosen.  Don't know if it was because you weren't cool enough or there were political aspects between you and an MVP that would otherwise have recommended you, but is now NOT nominating you because of company differences or personality conflicts.

6. Bow down to the power of the DL - Many MVPs have explained the power of the MVP program is in the Distribution list.  It's truly the social sharing, helping, and building each other up and looking out for each other, and I really do respect and adore that.  The SharePoint DL is obviously exclusive and does include an occasional NDA email from Microsoft, but how many of those daily emails are things that could be shared with the community, but that wealth of information stays within the group or is disseminated by the chosen few.  There are hundreds of cool MVP wannabe's that the difference will be this social DL.  It's sad.  I think it's great to have the DL, but why not make it achievable or accessible where information isn't NDA?  Exclusivity.

7. Unhealthy reliance on MVP - Microsoft because of the MVP program often excludes NON MVPs when it's sending out calls for speakers is looking for the thing that sets them apart.  This example will sound personal, but I think it relates.  After speaking 5 years at TechED ITForum in Europe the organizer said they were focusing on MVPs and Microsoft speakers, and I would maybe be considered, but the way to get considered was to get my MVP.  Wow.  Couldn't believe that.

8. Regional - Sorry, we might find out there are too many MVPs in your region and so due to this, it's a lot harder to accept nominations.  So despite your skills, influence, and contributions you are going to be ignored.  Might be budget, but please don't ask questions.  It's an award.

9. Company Politics need to be left outside the program - In the social side of the MVP program there are many MVPs who put their company politics first.  They wouldn't socialize with a competitor.  It's great when these can be broken down, but it's really sad to see these types of things break up the community and splinter the MVP program.  As leaders of the SharePoint community it is unfortunate to see this divide the community.

10. Your way of doing things vs. Ours "The secret formula"- Because the MVP program is quite illusive on what it does to figure out who's in and who's not, a lot of people are afraid to say anything about it.  Many that have been ignored over the years have decided that in their community efforts they don't want to have to change the way they do their community work to fit to the mold of the MS MVP program.  They wonder if they spent more time in the newsgroups and less time blogging would that better fit the need?  Is community work, community work?  Nope, while the formula isn't published, there is a special kind of recognition for certain types of activities.  It's true you'll find an exhausted community of people who are doing an amazing amount of community efforts without recognition.

 

The Knights weren't intended to be compared to the MVP program and both will continue to recognize and promote awesome people in the community.  We love the MVPs.  Animosity is not the goal.  Let's just take a step back and look at where we are...

I'll let the community continue to vet this, but behind the scenes we'll take the feedback and change and adjust as appropriate.  Great post Jeremy on Knights vs. MVPs

Comments

you have some misinformation and just don't get it

oh dear mate, you really should learn when to keep your mouth shut.
 
1. MVPs aren't respsonsible for nomination or selection, they can nominate, but that's all. It can be seen as a Old Boy's club, but that is a false impression easily debunked if you actually knew anything about it. In some regions (e.g. India) you can even nominate yourself.
 
3. Not true unless you did something which violated an NDA or the MVP code of conduct, which exists and should be taken seriously. Most ex-MVPs are still treated like MVPs - i.e. once an MVP always an MVP at least by the peeps themselves. Of course they don't contiue to reap the program benefits, which is entirely proper.
 
4. There will always be some MVP only socials. Nothing wrong with that. But, who started the SharePint trend? MVPs that's who - and that's not exclusive to them. I do agreee the SharePoint MVPs in particular could however be a little more open
 
5. Same shit happens with all these kind of things, and if you think it won't with Knights you are incredibly naive
 
6. Bullshit. That DL is a MVP benefit, not a public channel. Sometimes if everyone agrees content ends up on the public interweb. Like my SPCA article for example, dont try and talk about things you don't know about. You've never been on the DL so how can you claim to know about it's rules. Yes there are RULES. agreed to by the participants.  There has to be a degree of exclusivility with a channel like this.
 
As you don't have exposure to it you don't even realise that's it;s power is nowhere near what it used to be, and the idea that "bow down to the power of the DL" is just completey wide of the mark.
 
7. YOu never had a problem with that when you had a regular spot as a MSFT employee. Let me tell you mate, I've been an MVP for seven years and it's had hardly any impact on my chances to get a spot at TechEd. Given how many people literally BEG to speak at these type of events you can't blame organisers using metrics to help them going forward. If speakers are rubbish punters feel they have wasted thier money. Of course simply being an MVP doesn't mean you will be a good speaker. It's just one of many metrics used. You should know better.
 
8. Yup - that part sucks, but having gazillions of MVPs won't help. I don't like diversity drives either, but until you manage such a large program with significant scale challenges it's a little ridiculous to complain. How are you going to do this any better? How many Knights do you see there being in the first year?
 
9. LMAO. Honestly if you think that company politics will play no part you are again naive. Which company is it you work for again, and which Ads you have on this very page?  Come on dude, we all don't like that stuff, but it's always there. How will you deal with it any better than the MVP program. Whilst i don't like certain factions, the MVP group (sharepoint specifically) is actually pretty decent. most of us are competitors and there are very few real problems.
 
10. we sign an NDA and take it seriously. Secret formula my foot. It might be a magic eight ball (a least now) but you are taking it way out of context.
 
 
How come you think you know so much about the MVP program having never been in it? Your views are inteesting, but you sound so bitter. and not once in your entire post did you mention technical competence.
 
Sure there are things the SP MVP community could do better, but take my word for it both us and the MSFT peps are working on it. The thing is, we don't pre-annouce it, like vapourware.
 
I actually take quite a lot of direct personal offence to what you have posted, and had hoped you would know better than to publish such a knee jerk reaction. Isn't this breaking your own "rules"?  Why do you feel it neccessary to come out and diss MVPs by dissing the program? You are also dissing the hard work in the community many of us MVPs do. and the hard work done by the MVP program leads and PG peeps.
 
I really did expect much more humility and common sense from you  bro. What happened?
at 5/5/2009 7:57 AM

you say you hope people won't take it the wrong way...

...but you are so unfairly critical and also just plain wrong in some places. My comment is the one above - was hoping my URL would show up or something.
 
I really hope you learn to moderate your opinions in the future, or do you just plain like upsetting people?
 
Spence
at 5/5/2009 8:03 AM

Thanks Joel

Again, please add the name and url fields back into your Comments XSL. Spence shouldn't have to comment twice for us to know his name.
Great discussion you've started. I agree with you that another form of recognition and community leadership awareness would be great. Thanks for contributing so much to the community and providing thought leadership and provoking discussion.
-Tom Resing
at 5/5/2009 8:27 AM

My goodness...

You have GOT to learn when to shut your mouth. You totally don't get it... cya dude, I'm done with your rants.
at 5/5/2009 8:50 AM

I agree

There is a bit of a community gap.  Having a community based acknowldegement does speak volumes as peers recognize the entire body of work. 
 
MVP is a great moniker but doesn't touch all the great amazing people out there putting in work for the community.  Having another group of people to associate and recognize as great minds in the community is a GOOD thing.
at 5/5/2009 9:42 AM

SharePoint Knights already exists...

It's called the master certification. Certifications like this separate the posers from the true masters enterprise clients wish to engage. I view the MVP program as the boy scouts and master and the Navy Seals. :)

 

Knights? People that couldn’t make scouts? Cub scouts?

at 5/5/2009 10:33 AM

What Do SharePoint Knights Do?

Let me guess.... will they go on a Quest?  Yeah, keep the company politics out of it.
at 5/5/2009 11:06 AM

What Do SharePoint Knights Do?

Let me guess.... will they go on a Quest?  Yeah, keep the company politics out of it.
at 5/5/2009 11:07 AM

Not in my experience

I'm not going to insult you personally (since I don't know you), and am amazed at the vitriol in these comments. I've been an MVP in a totally different area (File System Storage) for just one year. In that time I've had awesome interactions with Microsoft, had a great time at the Summit, and have learned lots of interesting things that I'm sharing once allowed by NDA. My few fellow storage MVPs are helpful in the extreme, not just to me but to everyone. I've never noticed anything like an old boys club, exclusion, etc. Maybe things are different in SharePoint land but what you describe does not match my experience at all. I certainly hope that MVPs in other areas don't act the way you describe, and I hope they'll take this opportunity to examine their own actions instead of just lambasting you! If you're off base, so be it. But if they're actually acting this way, things have got to change! I do think you might have gotten a few of these points wrong, however. MVPs are not exclusively self-nominated that I know of. Not every area has a DL. And the selection isn't some secret formula - people are simply nominated, evaluated, and selected by Microsoft people. Take care, Joel, and keep on supporting the community regardless of whether you are an MVP or not.
at 5/5/2009 12:02 PM

From a SharePoint MVP

Joel, With all the respect I have for you, I was very disappointed to read both your posts. What is even more disappointing is the comments that some folks have left about MVPs. Really ungrateful of them IMO. Not that I say MVP program is perfect, but to me these two blog posts bring no value to the community except to be a place for some of your readers to channel their inferior complexities and frustrations for not being selected as an MVP. I also agree that some of the MVPs are unnecessarily over-inflated (it's just an award, not the end of the world FGS) , but they are human beings and overgeneralizing this to all MVPs is just ridiculous! Read the comments - what can you see except negativity in 90% of them? This will tell you a lot about the direction your blog post is taking the community to! Folks have forgotten , when Beta 2 came out and there were absolutely NO resources available and it was just MVPs who threw their weight into it to get many of the communities confusions straight! Look at the blog posts published by MVPs and compare it to anyone else in the community even with softies ? How many books about SharePoint is out there and there is no MVP in it? How can you deny their influence? My $0.02
at 5/5/2009 12:30 PM

From a SharePoint MVP

Joel, With all the respect I have for you, I was very disappointed to read both your posts. What is even more disappointing is the comments that some folks have left about MVPs. Really ungrateful of them IMO. Not that I say MVP program is perfect, but to me these two blog posts bring no value to the community except to be a place for some of your readers to channel their inferior complexities and frustrations for not being selected as an MVP. I also agree that some of the MVPs are unnecessarily over-inflated (it's just an award, not the end of the world FGS) , but they are human beings and overgeneralizing this to all MVPs is just ridiculous! Read the comments - what can you see except negativity in 90% of them? This will tell you a lot about the direction your blog post is taking the community to! Folks have forgotten , when Beta 2 came out and there were absolutely NO resources available and it was just MVPs who threw their weight into it to get many of the communities confusions straight! Look at the blog posts published by MVPs and compare it to anyone else in the community even with softies ? How many books about SharePoint is out there and there is no MVP in it? How can you deny their influence? My $0.02
at 5/5/2009 12:34 PM

Oh and one more thing from previous post

The attitude that was responded to this post with such harsh words and ignorance and my previous experience with other MVP's just devalued the title that much more for me.  I really wish I knew which MVP's posted the comments so I could put them on my blacklist.  At least Joel had the guts to actually say what he fealt, instead of hiding behind a curtain like a big fat toolbag.
at 5/5/2009 12:41 PM

From a SharePoint MVP

Joel, With all the respect I have for you, I was very disappointed to read both your posts. What is even more disappointing is the comments that some folks have left about MVPs. Really ungrateful of them IMO. Not that I say MVP program is perfect, but to me these two blog posts bring no value to the community except to be a place for some of your readers to channel their inferior complexities and frustrations for not being selected as an MVP. I also agree that some of the MVPs are unnecessarily over-inflated (it's just an award, not the end of the world FGS) , but they are human beings and overgeneralizing this to all MVPs is just ridiculous! Read the comments - what can you see except negativity in 90% of them? This will tell you a lot about the direction your blog post is taking the community to! Folks have forgotten , when Beta 2 came out and there were absolutely NO resources available and it was just MVPs who threw their weight into it to get many of the communities confusions straight! Look at the blog posts published by MVPs and compare it to anyone else in the community even with softies ? How many books about SharePoint is out there and there is no MVP in it? How can you deny their influence? My $0.02
at 5/5/2009 12:46 PM

From Another SharePoint MVP

IMHO if you pursue the MVP award specifically with the goal of achieving it, you are quite likely to be disappointed.  I am a UG lead and international speaker and, as you would expect, put in tons and tons of volunteer community time.  I am passionate about SharePoint and passionate about sharing knowledge with said community and ensuring community members do the same.  I was pleasantly surprised at my MVP award, grateful for the recognition from Microsoft for my efforts, and of the benefits granted.  The award was unexpected.  I'm thinking my case turned out the way the award should work.  I don't think I've turned into some type of Elitist snob as a result.  The award is reevaluated EVERY YEAR against the incumbents, not a permanent ticket to an old boys club - renewal is not guaranteed.  Even if and when I continue my level of efforts, if my peers do better, they will get the award over me and they deserve it.  I know.  I've been an MVP some years and not others.  Good for those that raise the bar for the program!  And by definition then, with a fairly high bar, not everyone can achieve this award (with noted MVP limits by region).  It is the cream of the community crop.  My passion and work for the community won't change because of this award.  Nor should ANYONES efforst change out there who are putting in tons of hours in the community or great events.  You are all awesome and keep up the great work.  But knowing many fellow MVPs, please believe me they have EARNED it.  Please take the time to say "Thank You" next time you run into an MVP of any category.   Ed.
at 5/5/2009 3:18 PM

From Another SharePoint MVP

IMHO if you pursue the MVP award specifically with the goal of achieving it, you are quite likely to be disappointed.  I am a UG lead and international speaker and, as you would expect, put in tons and tons of volunteer community time.  I am passionate about SharePoint and passionate about sharing knowledge with said community and ensuring community members do the same.  I was pleasantly surprised at my MVP award, grateful for the recognition from Microsoft for my efforts, and of the benefits granted.  The award was unexpected.  I'm thinking my case turned out the way the award should work.  I don't think I've turned into some type of Elitist snob as a result.  The award is reevaluated EVERY YEAR against the incumbents, not a permanent ticket to an old boys club - renewal is not guaranteed.  Even if and when I continue my level of efforts, if my peers do better, they will get the award over me and they deserve it.  I know.  I've been an MVP some years and not others.  Good for those that raise the bar for the program!  And by definition then, with a fairly high bar, not everyone can achieve this award (with noted MVP limits by region).  It is the cream of the community crop.  My passion and work for the community won't change because of this award.  Nor should ANYONES efforst change out there who are putting in tons of hours in the community or great events.  You are all awesome and keep up the great work.  But knowing many fellow MVPs, please believe me they have EARNED it.  Please take the time to say "Thank You" next time you run into an MVP of any category.   Ed.
at 5/5/2009 3:22 PM

From Another SharePoint MVP

IMHO if you pursue the MVP award specifically with the goal of achieving it, you are quite likely to be disappointed.  I am a UG lead and international speaker and, as you would expect, put in tons and tons of volunteer community time.  I am passionate about SharePoint and passionate about sharing knowledge with said community and ensuring community members do the same.  I was pleasantly surprised at my MVP award, grateful for the recognition from Microsoft for my efforts, and of the benefits granted.  The award was unexpected.  I'm thinking my case turned out the way the award should work.  I don't think I've turned into some type of Elitist snob as a result.  The award is reevaluated EVERY YEAR against the incumbents, not a permanent ticket to an old boys club - renewal is not guaranteed.  Even if and when I continue my level of efforts, if my peers do better, they will get the award over me and they deserve it.  I know.  I've been an MVP some years and not others.  Good for those that raise the bar for the program!  And by definition then, with a fairly high bar, not everyone can achieve this award (with noted MVP limits by region).  It is the cream of the community crop.  My passion and work for the community won't change because of this award.  Nor should ANYONES efforst change out there who are putting in tons of hours in the community or great events.  You are all awesome and keep up the great work.  But knowing many fellow MVPs, please believe me they have EARNED it.  Please take the time to say "Thank You" next time you run into an MVP of any category.   Ed.
at 5/5/2009 3:23 PM

I'm not an MVP - Just a random SharePoint expert

Joel even you as a former MSFT employee should be familiar with the world of recognition or sometimes lack of it. Many many employees in many organizations not withstanding MSFT go for years without recognition and often outperform their peers in ways that arent recognised properly by the performance system, but eventually good things come to those who wait.
 
You say "They can't nominate themselves, that would heresy.  The program needs to be more clear." The same thing applies to 90% of recognition/performance systems. If it was a science everyone would be an MVP. I'm certainly not an MVP and can't say I disagree with all of your points - yes sometimes having the MVPs push their companies, egos and whatever else in your face is a bit much, but you are hardly innocent of that. YOU certainly have less chance of becoming an MVP or even gaining further respect in the IT PRO community as a result of this post.
 
How many IT PRO's do you think ACTUALLY care?
 
How many just do their 9-5 and appreciate the help the MVP's give, whilst respecting their status as Subject Matter Experts and almost always correct advice? But then go home and get on with their lives rather than crying over spilt milk and sitting to play chess with their egos? Cough *Knights*.
 
I could go on about your other comments because some of them completely reflect what your little knights thing looks like. "The MVPs have become a religious order, definitely not the original intentions of the MVP program.  It really has taken the exclusivity and many when they are not renewed feel like they were kicked out of the club.  It's actually very sad."
 
ETC ETC ETC but to be honest its a bit of a boring read when all I want is to learn something new about SharePoint - if I wanted a gossip column I would read Hello magazine or whatever the latest one is nowadays!
at 5/5/2009 4:42 PM

Neil Hodgkinson (MSFT PFE)

Folks
 
As a SharePointer for some 9 years now I had always been jealous of the MVP tag, thinking of it as some mystical, unobtainable award that only people in the right circles or who know the right people could ever achieve.
 
Since joining MS nearly four years ago that perception has been both changed and reinforced. To explain..
 
I have been lucky enough in my career at MS to meet people from the Product Group, Field Engineering, Evangelists and the Microsoft Consultant teams. For the most part I have been impressed with their commitment to the product and to the customer depending on the product to 'do what it says on the tin'.
 
Compare that with the last eighteen months where I have been even luckier to have come face to face with many of the SharePoint MVPs both in work and at events and social gatherings. These folks are in my opinion a special breed.
Do they know more than the folks at MS? Well yes and know, it depends on the person and the question.
Do they give more time and commitment to the community? Here I have to say yes. Not that MS people (myself included) don't give as much as we can, its just that MVPs seem to find more time or are prepared to take more time out to go that extra mile to provide something extra. That is why they are recognised for it and in my opinion deserve it.
One an earlier post on this blog someone mentioned MVP as being a badge to increase the daily rate and get the better jobs. Well maybe that comes as a benefit but it has to be earned in the first place. It might be possible to engineer an MVP award by playing the game but it is only through sustained good community work it is retained. Those MVPs who are not renewed but have good standing and reputation are not shunned as someone else mentioned earlier. At the SharePoint Best Practices Conference in the UK in April this was clearly in evidence. The Speaker room was a great place to hang out with no scisms or divisions between MVPs, Ex-MVPs and non MVPs. A real community spirit was in evidence and everyone pulled together.
 
Just my observations from recent experiences. In my opinion the MVP program has its own problems but so does everything when you get down to it. The question is how you deal with them and whether you face up to them and help to fix the problems or run away and play a different game. 
at 5/5/2009 5:07 PM

Neil Hodgkinson (MSFT PFE)

Folks, copy and paste error earlier. Full posting is below.
 
As a SharePointer for some 9 years now I had always been jealous of the MVP tag, thinking of it as some mystical, unobtainable award that only people in the right circles or who know the right people could ever achieve.
 
Since joining MS nearly four years ago that perception has been both changed and reinforced. To explain..
 
I have been lucky enough in my career at MS to meet people from the Product Group, Field Engineering, Evangelists and the Microsoft Consultant teams. For the most part I have been impressed with their commitment to the product and to the customer depending on the product to 'do what it says on the tin'.
 
Compare that with the last eighteen months where I have been even luckier to have come face to face with many of the SharePoint MVPs both in work and at events and social gatherings. These folks are in my opinion a special breed.
Do they know more than the folks at MS? Well yes and know, it depends on the person and the question.
Do they give more time and commitment to the community? Here I have to say yes. Not that MS people (myself included) don't give as much as we can, its just that MVPs seem to find more time or are prepared to take more time out to go that extra mile to provide something extra. That is why they are recognised for it and in my opinion deserve it.
One an earlier post on this blog someone mentioned MVP as being a badge to increase the daily rate and get the better jobs. Well maybe that comes as a benefit but it has to be earned in the first place. It might be possible to engineer an MVP award by playing the game but it is only through sustained good community work it is retained. Those MVPs who are not renewed but have good standing and reputation are not shunned as someone else mentioned earlier. At the SharePoint Best Practices Conference in the UK in April this was clearly in evidence. The Speaker room was a great place to hang out with no scisms or divisions between MVPs, Ex-MVPs and non MVPs. A real community spirit was in evidence and everyone pulled together.
 
The missed piece
 
What has reinforced my earlier opinions of MVPs is the being in the right circles and knowing the right people.: The right circles are the companies and individuals who benfit from the knowledge and commitment of MVPs. The right people... well just the same. No secret handshakes or clandestine meetings, just open (NDA notwithstanding) and giving people.
 
back to thread
 
Just my observations from recent experiences. In my opinion the MVP program has its own problems but so does everything when you get down to it. The question is how you deal with them and whether you face up to them and help to fix the problems or run away and play a different game. 
 
 
 
at 5/5/2009 5:18 PM

Religion

This to me sounds like another Quest to garner a following like various other religious figures of the past.
 
I know you Joel and this is purely a self serving move in disguise as a community effort.  All because you are pissed off you didnt get rewarded as an MVP.
 
Lame. 
 
Instead why dont you focus on what you need to become and MVP and stop inventing another game to serve your own purposes.
 
SP MVPs are great.  i am not one of them, but love the work they do.
 
at 5/5/2009 7:09 PM

Ted Pattison - The soft-spoken SharePoint MVP

Yesterday, I read your first blog post and its comments. Today, the news that your next post compared itself to a religious manifesto from medieval times spread around my online world faster than swine flu coverage on CNN. I have spent the last few hours reading private DL threads that discuss public newsgroup threads that discuss your post and it comments. With all this extraneous noise I am wondering what you are really proposing here. Where's the meat?
 
As I read through everything, I sense that you are proposing to start up some type of body or organization that administrates granting knighthood and connecting knights with user groups and other communities. Are you the one who is going to spearhead this effort? From experience I know this will take a good deal of time and commitment on your part. Furthermore, some of this work will need to be done during regular business hours. It seems like the only way you could pull this off would be to get the approval of your employer, Quest. Yet this scenario would require that Quest willingly elects to support an organization that vows not to be controlled by the business interests of any company including Quest. This makes me wonder if your idea has any chance of going somewhere. Are there any more details you can shed to transform the SPKighthood program from fantasy to fiction?
 
One more thing I cannot resist. I am a life-long Monty Python fan so I really like the Knights metaphor. Although it's hard for me to take it seriously because I keep hearing all the quotes and sound bites from Monty Python and the Holy Grail running though my head. A final piece of advice from an old dude. If you choose to continue and build out this Knights metaphor in future posts, I strongly recommend against using the word "crusade". The word has a tendency to stir up unneeded controversy which I am sure you would want to avoid. You might remember that George Bush messed up on that one and we should all try and learn from his mistakes.
at 5/5/2009 9:25 PM

Matthijs Hoekstra (DPE Microsoft Netherlands)

Joel,
 
Creating something beside MVP's is great. But I hope you're doing it for the right reasons.
 
In the Netherlands we have a great example of a initative created by some local SharePoint heroes called SharePoint Blackbelts.
One thing of the SharePoint MVP's is the value of sharing knowledge to eachother as well (through the private DL for example). The thing is there are a lot of SharePoint guru's here in the Netherlands who aren't MVP. They want some vehicle to share knowledge with eachoter as well (on a peer level).
They could use the MSDN forums for example but there is a lot of difference in expertise online.
So 2 guys (1 MVP and one not) started this group SharePoint blackbelts. they invited some other local SharePoint gurus and started sharing knowledge. It's an exclusive group because they want the techincal level to be high. Fortunatly they want to share the knowledge they gane in this group by writing blogposts, presenting at conferences etc.
As a MS DPE guy I am very happy the started this group. It's a great vehicle for MS to use as well.
They have the opportunity to share knowledge at a peer level. We have some MVP's involved who can share their knowledge with this group as well. This way we can bring the expertise sharepoint knowledge to other layers of the SharePoint community as well.
 
So my question is why is the MVP-ship so important. There is no guarentee that it will be around forever. Your own (local) initiative can be there as long as you need it to be.
 
I see a lot of people trying to become an MVP and are disappointed a lot because they are doing this for the wrong reasons.
at 5/6/2009 5:01 AM

Add Comment

 Social Comments

Post Comments to your Facebook Profile Post comments to twitter or on SharePointJoel.com
blog comments powered by Disqus
Share

Blog (RSS)

Follow on Networked Blogs Facebook

Recent Comments

Powered by Disqus
Subscribe by Email or RSS

Contact me

 20 Recent Posts

The Great Virtualization Debate: What to do? SharePoint 2010 for LaptopsUse SHIFT+ENTER to open the menu (new window).
SharePoint 2010 Better Together with SQL 2008 R2 Database Enhancements Top 10Use SHIFT+ENTER to open the menu (new window).
SharePoint 2010 Upgrade Insight SeriesUse SHIFT+ENTER to open the menu (new window).
10 Reasons your CIO should NOT block Social NetworkingUse SHIFT+ENTER to open the menu (new window).
Understanding Feature and Code Depreciation for Upgrade to SharePoint 2010Use SHIFT+ENTER to open the menu (new window).
Free SharePoint Reports with No Server InstallUse SHIFT+ENTER to open the menu (new window).
How to Remove Corrupted SharePoint Sites – Preparing for SharePoint 2010 UpgradeUse SHIFT+ENTER to open the menu (new window).
Building SharePoint Latin American CommunityUse SHIFT+ENTER to open the menu (new window).
SharePoint Community Unites to Help HaitiUse SHIFT+ENTER to open the menu (new window).
SharePoint 2010 Upgrade: Test-SPContentDatabase - Key to Successful UpgradeUse SHIFT+ENTER to open the menu (new window).
10 Key Questions Determining SharePoint SQL Server CountUse SHIFT+ENTER to open the menu (new window).
Best BBQ Across America Challenge: SharePoint Tweetup and SharePintUse SHIFT+ENTER to open the menu (new window).
Year End Review – SharePoint in 2009Use SHIFT+ENTER to open the menu (new window).
A Tribute to the Road Warriors - Top 20 Most Travelled SharePoint People in 2009*Use SHIFT+ENTER to open the menu (new window).
Christmas SharePoint Tweetup in DC for Light FestivalUse SHIFT+ENTER to open the menu (new window).
Announcing Discount, Keynote, and Speakers for SharePoint 2010 @ The Experts Conference 2010Use SHIFT+ENTER to open the menu (new window).
10 Tips Troubleshooting Installations for SharePoint 2010 and SharePoint FoundationUse SHIFT+ENTER to open the menu (new window).
Rocky Mountains and Midwest SharePoint Events Next Week! Dec 8-12Use SHIFT+ENTER to open the menu (new window).
Join Me in Denver for SharePoint #ShareFun Bowling, Billiards, Food and Drinks on Dec 8Use SHIFT+ENTER to open the menu (new window).
Business Connectivity Services in SharePoint 2010 preserve use of Relational DatabasesUse SHIFT+ENTER to open the menu (new window).